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[00:00:21] Dannelle: When we find ourselves deeply involved in the responsibilities of caregiving, it makes sense that we go into survival mode. The challenge is that survival mode disconnects us from our relationships with others, particularly our spouse or intimate partner. On top of the daily tasks of care, it’s important to be aware of how we’re feeling to maintain a strong relationship. Balancing a partnership takes mutual work regardless of circumstances. So, when caregiving is involved, we’ve got to up our game to prevent breeding grounds for resentment. 

[00:01:10] Today’s guest, Liz Earnshaw, is here to share her invaluable insights and how we move from survival mode when care takes so much. Liz is a licensed marriage and family therapist who works to make relational wellness more widely accessible. She’s the author of I Want This to Work: A[n] [Inclusive] Guide to Navigating the Most Difficult Relationship Issues We Face [in the Modern Age]. 

[00:01:45] Welcome to The Caregiving Soul! I’m Dannelle LeBlanc.  

[00:01:51] [Music Ends] 

[00:01:52] Dannelle: So, nobody teaches us how to deal with these kinds of situations. I mean, an intimate partnership is difficult regardless. But then you add something like health issues. What are the unanticipated reasons for conflict that you see when you’re working with couples? 

[00:02:15] Liz: So, one thing that I just want to mark is this idea of nobody really talks about this or prepares for it, and most people feel like they’re the exception to the rule and that everybody else must be off doing everything right and not having conflict and all of that kind of stuff. 

[00:02:30] And if you think about it, a lot of people in their relationships, at some point, are gonna be in some sort of caregiver role, whether both people are acting as a caregiver to another person, a child, their parent, somebody else that they’re taking care of, or a partner is sick and struggling and you’re being a caregiver to them. 

[00:02:50] And so, this is something that I would say most couples, at some point, they come across this experience of having to caregive. And what does that mean about their identity? What does that mean about how they interact with each other? And so, when we talk about “unanticipated”, it’s kind of sad that it’s unanticipated because we really can’t anticipate it. 

[00:03:10] So, if anybody’s listening, one thing I’d like to do for you is to normalize that we don’t talk about it enough, that we don’t share that these are things that come up for a lot of people, but that they do come up for a lot of people, and you’re not alone in that.  

[00:03:24] Now the unanticipated conflicts, because we don’t talk about it, number one is the result of stress. And I know that sounds really basic, but people don’t understand how much stress impacts the way that we can relate to other people.  

[00:03:43] And so if, let’s say somebody’s sick, your partner has cancer and you’re caregiving while they’re healing. And your partner’s feeling stress, right? They’re worried about their health, their job, their life, how this is impacting you. How this is impacting other people. The fact that they can’t do any of the things they used to be able to do. So, they’re feeling stress.  

[00:04:07] You’re feeling stress. You’re doing new roles that weren’t your role in the past. You’re worried about what’s going to happen. You might be worried about finances. You’re taking on a lot, and it’s all new and it’s not exactly what you were expecting. 

[00:04:19] And when people feel stress in their bodies, what happens is that they start to release a lot of stress hormones and a lot of stress chemicals. And those stress chemicals, they don’t just feel bad in our body, they actually impact our brain.  

[00:04:33] And so, if there’s stress happening in your relationship because of caregiving and you’re arguing a lot, or you’re feeling really withdrawn, the first thing that you can kind of look at is number one saying to yourself, “Okay, this makes sense. I’m really stressed when people are stressed”. Chemicals impact the brain. They put them into fight flight or freeze. So, they become very active and maybe agitated or they become withdrawn. 

[00:05:02] And so, if that’s happening, you can say to yourself, “This makes sense. My brain is going into a space where it’s in survival mode. It’s just trying to get things done”. But then asking yourself because of that, which things have been turned off in my brain. And usually, the types of things that get turned off in your brain when you are stressed are things that are really important to a relationship. So, humor, curiosity, play, problem solving, all of those types of things. 

[00:05:31] So, when I work with people who are in caregiving situations, what do you think is common? They’re not playing anymore. They’re not problem solving. They’re saying this person is so frustrating. I’ve given them 80 options of how we could deal with this. And they’re not dealing with it. They tell me everything is a bad idea. They’re not showing affection to each other.  

[00:05:52] So, all of these things that are important for relationships, the brains actually turned them off. It said, those aren’t important for survival. You’ve just gotta get stuff done. So that is one unanticipated thing. We know we’re gonna be stressed, but we forget about how it impacts our ability to relate to other people. 

[00:06:08] I think the other unanticipated thing is that there’s an ideal vision of who you’re going to be in it, whether you’re the caregiver or the receiver. So, I’m gonna be the hero. I’m gonna be that one that’s like always cheering on this person and I love them, and I take care of them and da da da da da. 

[00:06:26] And the receiver is like, I’m gonna be grateful and I’m gonna love my partner through this. And something I think that surprises people is you don’t actually act like your ideal a lot of the time. And that’s okay, because you’re human, but that can create conflict too, cuz you might feel a sense of internal shame about that or your partner might feel like you’re not living up to what they thought that you would be. And so these ideas of who am I supposed to be in this situation versus who I actually am can cause a lot of conflict too.  

[00:06:56] Dannelle: So, thank you so much for that because that is a new perspective that you described when you talked about what happens to us as a result of stress – that it’s not only impacting our bodies but our brains. Because I think so often we’re just trying to push through so many of these emotions as if we could overcome them with willpower. [Laughs] And all of these other things that we want to cultivate in our relationship, like humor and curiosity and play and the ability to problem solve get downgraded when we’re in survival mode. 

[00:07:41] Liz: Yeah. 

[00:07:41] Dannelle: And that we can tell ourselves that that makes sense. 

[00:07:45] Liz: Yeah, and that way you can look at yourself or your partner through a more compassionate lens, doesn’t mean you don’t wanna figure out how do we reduce some stress so that we can play with each other and be curious and be affectionate and be partners again. But I think that what tends to happen is we approach it from a critical lens. This is how you behave, and you need to behave differently. And you’re never any fun anymore. You have no sense of humor, blah, blah, blah. And if we’re approaching it from that lens, it just doubles down, right?  

[00:08:19] Dannelle: This toll of caregiving, specifically on our time, our energy health, financial resources, so often remains camouflaged when we don’t have the language to define it. So, what kind of language is helpful to clearly communicate the impact and what does meaningful support look like? 

[00:08:47] Liz: Hmm. It’s two different issues and there’s two different approaches, right? Because if you’re taking care of someone outside of the system (the system is you and your partner) and you’re in something that Stan Tatkin calls like a couple bubble, right? 

[00:09:03] And so anything outside of it, the two of you should be secure and should be each other’s kind of support beam for dealing with the hurricane outside. And like let’s say you’re dealing with an aging parent, and you are their caregiver. I have a lot of clients actually going through this right now where their parent is sick, and they’re doing a lot of work and their partner is kind of there on the sidelines and they might wanna help more, but there’s just not a lot that they can do. 

[00:09:30] And so how does that person communicate what they need to their partner? Well, I think number one is remembering that your job is not to be protector of your partner’s feelings. One thing that I know a lot of caregivers is that then they don’t wanna bother anybody else cause they’re caregiving their partner too. 

[00:09:48] So, I’ll say to them, “Oh, so how’s your partner helping you?” “Oh, they’re [clicks tongue] I don’t know, like, it’s not a big deal. I go over to my mom’s, I do what I need to do and my partner’s great, my partner’s with the kids, but he’s under a lot of stress or she’s under a lot of stress. I don’t really wanna bother them right now.” 

[00:10:04] And so the first thing I coach them on is we’ve gotta get past that, because you can only give so much caregiving in your life, and right now you actually probably need your partner to be a little bit of a caregiver to you. So, you’re giving a lot over here. How can they kind of take care of and nourish you right now? 

[00:10:23] We all only have a certain amount of battery charge, and so yours is being given to caregiving and how could they help charge you up sometimes? So, letting somebody get comfortable with that and then being able to bring it to their partner and making sure that you’re avoiding any sort of criticism.  

And then the opposite of that is that you don’t wanna just say nothing. So instead, actually just being able to have really transparent conversation and being able to say, “I am completely drained. And I come home and I can’t do all of this”. Talking about what the issue is, not about your partner. 

[00:10:56] So, talking about, I’m really tired. I’m not sure if you’re aware but being with my parent, or being with my sister, whoever it is, all day long, is truly, it’s exhausting in multiple ways. Emotionally, physically, it is taking its toll and when I come home at the end of the day, I notice – and I always tell people, “Say what you notice”. 

[00:11:30] “I notice that the house is a mess and I can’t not notice it”. And then talk about how you feel. “I feel overwhelmed. I feel defeated. I feel like I, I just can’t do it anymore. Like I’m gonna collapse”. [Music] And don’t be so afraid that you are imposing or you’re being annoying, or you’re asking for too much. 

[00:11:52] You are a caring, loving person. I know it’s probably hard for you, but you’ve got to bring it up again and again and again, and you have to know that that’s okay to do. We’re talking about the problem. We’re gonna solve the problem together. You are not the problem. The problem is that we are spread thin. The problem is that somebody I love is really sick and we have to solve this problem together, and I need you to be in my court helping me with that. 

[00:12:20] [Music Ends] 

[00:12:21] Dannelle: That’s really good. Okay. And so, let’s switch gears and talk about how we approach when it’s our partner who is sick? 

[00:12:36] Liz: Yeah, so some of the same things apply, and it’s a little bit harder to bring it up sometimes, right? Because the partner is already kind of feeling like they’re in a one down position. So, when we think about couples in a healthy relationship, ideally, we wanna be on the same playing field. In life sometimes there is not an even playing field. I’m pregnant right now and I had morning sickness for five months. Like my husband had to do a lot. I was put kind of in this one down position. “I need to rely on you”. 

[00:13:13] And so, if you’re caring for a loved one and they’ve been sick for a while, or they’ve been struggling with a mental health concern for a while, or whatever it is, they are in this one down position where you, inadvertently, and not because you want to be necessarily, but you are in a position of power and they also are feeling that, and it might be impacting their self-esteem, their feelings of worthiness. They already might feel really bad that they’re in that space, and so you obviously want to be sensitive to that. 

[00:13:47] And it doesn’t mean that you dance around the topic because that doesn’t help either. Because what will happen is you’ll feel resentful. Also, you will become their parent instead of their partner. And so, you have to remind yourself, even though this is hard, and it might bring up difficult feelings, I see this person as my partner, I see them as another adult in my life, and I wanna have partner conversations. 

[00:14:13] And you can go about it in the exact same way that we just talked about. You really wanna avoid criticism, you really wanna avoid bringing it up in a moment that might seem critical. Right? So, it might be something about that uncomfortable stuff that’s happening. 

[00:14:30] It might also be needing to reflect a little bit more on what that’s like for you. I’ve really been struggling because I love you so much, and then we get in these fights and I feel like you aren’t treating me like you think I’m your partner anymore. And I really wanna still be your partner, but for that I need you to know that there’s like certain ways that we’re gonna have to figure out how to deal with this or talk to each other, or whatever. 

[00:14:57] It might be sharing sometimes that you notice what you miss about them. I’ve been noticing myself really missing that we don’t travel as much right now. I know there’s nothing you can do about it. And I feel disappointed. How do you feel about it? Asking them questions, like bringing them into that conversation. 

[00:15:16] So, you wanna avoid criticism, but you don’t wanna avoid saying things just because they’re hard. Your partner is still a person, and they can still hear things and they might get defensive. And if they get defensive, that’s like any other conversation where somebody’s being defensive.  

[00:15:32] But I think one of the biggest places that people get themselves into trouble – I was working with a couple recently and someone was working on the recovery from addiction and so they were really a caregiver and one of the places they were really getting themselves in trouble was treating the person with kid gloves. 

[00:15:51] You know, “They’re sick. I don’t wanna say that right now. Yeah, they yelled at all of us in front of everybody last night and I was really upset, but I’m not gonna say anything about it because they’re sick and I don’t wanna push them over the edge”. Unless you’re being contemptuous and like really saying something harsh, you need to say it because your partner is still an adult person that needs to be allowed to be in that relationship with you. 

[00:16:21] Dannelle: I think that a lot of times we avoid what we think is a difficult conversation or confronting some behavior, because we don’t have the experience of what that can look like when we talk about it with a little bit of detachment from the emotion so we can feel the emotion – 

[00:16:46] Liz: Yeah. 

[00:16:46] Dannelle: – of being angry or upset or whatever it is. But the way that we express that doesn’t have to be infused… [Laughs] 

[00:16:59] Liz: That is a great way of saying that. [Laughs] 

[00:17:02] Dannelle: Yeah. With the anger. And so – 

[00:17:05] Liz: Yeah. 

[00:17:05] Dannelle: I love the point about finding the quiet moment, and waiting to say something when we’ve had a minute to harness the emotion. 

[00:17:18] Liz: Yes, yes. It’s not gonna work when you’re in the moment of heightened emotions, [Laughs] you need a moment to be able to “whew”, feel it within yourself and come up with what words you wanna say, and also your partner clearly isn’t going to be in the best space to receive it if they’re in a heightened place too. 

[00:17:38] Dannelle: Absolutely. And I think it’s also important to bring up that we may initially think that we’re avoiding, or we’re preventing some kind of conflict by not speaking up, that when we don’t we are actually feeding resentment underneath the surface. And resentment is a normal feeling, but how can we talk about and address resentment in a way that helps to strengthen – 

[00:18:13] Liz: Yeah. 

[00:18:13] Dannelle: – the relationship versus being something that breaks it down? 

[00:18:18] Liz: Such a great question. Resentment’s huge when you’re caring for somebody. It’s something that I would say most people feel even. Some people can get through it quickly, and sometimes resentment really bubbles under the surface and like people cannot get through it. 

[00:18:34] And so, if you are noticing yourself feeling resentful, you need to deal with that very quickly because the longer you feel resentment, the harder it is to get out of. And the reason for that is because you start to layer on resentful thoughts, and you start to get into something called [Music] “negative sentiment override”. 

[00:18:55] So, when we’re in a relationship with someone that we don’t have a ton of resentment, we have the opposite, it’s called the positive perspective. And that means that even if something hard happens, we think positively about it mostly. So, we might have an argument, but we think, you know what? We had an argument last night, but I still really love them. Or I know that we’re gonna get through this. So, we’re gonna talk about it and we’ll figure it out. 

[00:19:24] When you have resentment for a long time, you actually start flipping your thinking. And so everything starts to be attributed to something negative. So, my partner spent a lot of money last week, that’s because they’re so irresponsible they don’t think about others. But even the positives – my partner was really nice yesterday and really helpful, but I think they just want something out of me, and that’s why they’re doing that. 

[00:19:50] So, when people have resentment for a long time, they get into negative sentiment override. I see this a lot with individual clients. The reason we start to get into negative sentiment override is because we have all these layers of stories of how this person has let us down or used us, or not cared about us, or not cared about themselves, and that is the memory that we are leaning into. 

[00:20:11] [Music Ends] 

[00:20:12] If you start to feel resentful and you can clear it quickly, then that story doesn’t build up. The hard part is, is that sometimes you have to clear that resentment with the person, and sometimes you can’t, and you have to figure out a way to clear it with yourself. And the way you clear it with yourself is that you have to look at, what am I giving here that’s coming from me? And what am I giving here that’s only coming from obligation. 

[00:20:40] And if I’m giving it because it’s coming from me, I have to find a way to accept that this person isn’t always gonna do what I want them to do, and that’s gonna feel hard, but I’m choosing to do this and so they owe me nothing. Because resentment’s kind of about owing somebody, right? They owe me nothing.  

[00:20:59] Now, if it’s all about obligation and you do think that this person has really been like horrible to you your whole life and da da da, da, da, then maybe that’s where you start to think about boundaries. I’m doing this because I feel like I have to, but I think the only thing I can offer without getting resentful is X, Y, and Z. 

[00:21:15] It’s really hard to do though and the people you can process it with, again it’s being able to still have adult conversations. “You know, the other night when you came home and you screamed at the kids and you screamed at me, whew. That, that felt awful. And like, we cannot do that again”. Right?  

[00:21:32] I, I don’t want to resent you. I don’t wanna feel like I’m doing all of this stuff, and then you’re just yelling at me and coming at me. What can we do to fix this? So, you can actually process it with the person, but it depends on what’s going on, whether you can or not. 

[00:21:46] Dannelle: So, the resentment is tied to the stories that we’re telling ourselves. 

[00:21:54] Liz: Yeah. 

[00:21:56] Dannelle: So Liz, so many of us are, we’re already in the muck and the mire connected with caregiving. We’re not in prevention mode, we’re unprepared. So, what are your top tips for cultivating connection with our partner or spouse, particularly in times of change or stress when we are in the middle of it? 

[00:22:26] Liz: So, number one is you have to take care of yourself. You can’t connect with another person if you’re drained. And so how are you dealing with stress individually? We talked about earlier stress impacts our ability to really connect. So how am I dealing with that? Am I offloading things off my plate that I can let go of? 

[00:22:44] I’m not talking about the things you cannot let go of. Maybe sometimes 95% of it can’t go anywhere, but there are some things that we can let go of, right? So, am I getting rid of those? Am I tapping into social connections so that I can vent and talk? Am I getting therapy or am I taking walks? Or what am I doing to really address the fact that I am stressed out? 

[00:23:05] Really easier said than done. I totally know – don’t have enough time, or you feel like the time you do have it has to be spent on caregiving or, or doing something else. I get that, and you have to figure out a way, even if it’s a very small way, to take care of your stress. 

[00:23:22] So, number one, take care of yourself a little bit. Number two is – 

[00:23:26] Dannelle: And can I just interject – 

[00:23:51] Liz: Yeah! Please do. 

[00:23:26] Dannelle: – that taking care of ourselves, in a caregiving situation, I think one of the challenges, one of the reasons why we get stuck is because we have an ideal about what that looks like. So, exercising is gonna be completely different or getting that movement in is gonna be completely different in a caregiving situation than it would be before.  

[00:23:51] Liz: I love that you added that because it plays into the idea of expectations, which we hold ourselves to these expectations, and then if we can’t meet them, we don’t do it. And I think even as a mom, it’s like, for a long time I didn’t do any movement because all I thought was, I’m gonna have to get to that yoga class, or I’m gonna have to get over to Planet Fitness or what, you know, whatever it was. And I, I don’t have time for all of that. 

[00:24:17] Once I was able to say, that’s not really what movement is. Movement is like for 30 minutes I can go outside and pull weeds. Truly, and that feels good to me. I’m by myself, I’m outside, and that’s fine. Movement to me means that I’m gonna walk to the mailbox and then I’m actually gonna walk to the corner and I’ll come back like just doing these little things that are truly realistic. 

[00:24:38] And something that I think is so important for anybody in these situations to remember is, do not listen to unrealistic advice. This big, grandiose advice about how to reduce stress, right? Like, eat, eat these perfect meals, exercise per da, da da. No, just realistic. Like walk a little bit. Go in the basement for 20 minutes and listen to music that you like, like that’s all you have to do if that’s all you can do, I want you to feel like it can be realistic. 

[00:25:08] And so then my third tip is to remember everything is temporary. Temporary, temporary, temporary in life. And sometimes that’s really scary and sometimes that’s pleasant. But this isn’t the only way you ever have to connect. Once you get through this, or once life transitions again, or once you find new ways of navigating what this looks like, you might be able to travel again, or you might host parties again, or you might find ways to integrate stuff that you missed. So remember, it’s temporary. 

[00:25:40] And then the last piece of advice I would give is a lot of the couples I work with, and again, whether they’re caregiving others or there’s a caregiving situation within their relationship, sometimes the only thing they’re connecting over is the caregiving. And so, you’ve gotta find what are some other things we can connect on? You know, oh, we, we can’t do a lot, but right now we love watching scary movies together. And so that’s what we do. 

[00:26:04] Or we can’t do a lot because you’re always taking care of your uncle, but what we can do is on the drive over, we can always stop at Starbucks together and get a coffee. Here are some things that we can connect over that are not related to caregiving or sickness or illness, cuz there’s so much more than that in your relationship. 

[00:26:27] Dannelle: That’s really good. What else would you like our listeners to know about this journey? 

[00:26:38] Liz: Uh, that it’s hard and [Laughs] I know that they know that, but I was actually reading on Reddit the other day, somebody had posted that they were a caregiver to their partner and that they were feeling really frustrated because they were reading a lot of marriage advice that didn’t seem like it would fit for them. 

[00:26:57] And so I think it’s important for people to know that there is like no book out there, there is no script out there exactly for your situation. And there might be a lot of things where you hear advice, where you go to people and they give you advice and you think, that doesn’t fit me, and I feel like I’m doing something wrong. And that’s not true.  

[00:27:22] You know your own life. You know what’s best for your life. You know what you need to do for the people you love. And so cherry pick what feels helpful and then recognize that the other parts of it are things that you’re going to have to learn how to tolerate because they’re painful, but there is no way through them through. And I know that that’s a really frustrating thing to hear. But it’s also can be freeing to hear that. There isn’t necessarily a hack. It is just actually really hard. 

[00:27:56] Dannelle: Mmm. [Sighs] Great advice. Liz, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for your perspective, wonderful insights that you shared. 

[00:28:12] Liz: Thank you for having me. It was so nice to talk about this. Like you said, I don’t think it’s talked about enough, so it’s good to talk about it and just to think through different ways that people can navigate it. 

[00:28:23] [Music] 

[00:28:25] Dannelle: Thank you for joining our conversation with Liz. 

[00:28:29] Liz illuminates the physical and chemical symptoms that happen when we become emotionally flooded. When these hormones impact our bodies and brains, it’s no wonder we go into fight or flight mode as a way to cope with the stress. Once we understand the effects of these hormones, we can more consciously choose how we want to respond, giving ourselves time and space as needed before moving forward to address a difficult conversation or conflict.  

[00:29:08] I hope Liz’s expertise helps develop new approaches to navigate challenging times and enhances relationships with people you care about. There were so many good tips. I hope you found some that work for you. 

[00:29:27] Check out our show notes to connect with and follow Liz.  

[00:29:31] Every episode of The Caregiving Soul has a page on empoweredus.org where you can find the extended show notes, including tips and takeaways, transcripts, and relevant resource links.   

[00:29:44] For additional bonus content from this episode, and to connect with us, be sure to follow the Empowered Us social channels on Instagram @empoweredusnetwork and Twitter @empowereduspod. 

[00:30:00] The Caregiving Soul is an Empowered Us original, presented by Good Days, hosted by me, Dannelle LeBlanc. If you liked this episode, be sure to rate and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. 

[00:30:15] And remember, the right care includes care for you.  

[00:30:27] [Music Ends] d the walking problems. 

[00:02:19] Meanwhile, nobody could have known because it hadn’t been identified by medical science yet. So, really it couldn’t be diagnosed. So, she thought, well, maybe Parkinson’s. And she took all these MRIs of his brain and then I got the results back, and you know, it said all these things weren’t quite right – this signal in the brain and that signal, and I didn’t understand it, and we never heard back from the doctor. And he called her and “How about a follow up?” And she never called back. I guess she just didn’t know what it was. 

[00:02:49] So, then we get to the fifth neurologist like four years into our marriage and I got a new primary care doctor and he said, “Well, I know this really brilliant neurologist”. We went to him and by this time it was the end of 2003.  

[00:03:09] And so, we go in there and the first thing that this neurologist said was, is there anyone in your family with mental deficits? And [Music] I said, “Well, you know, my husband has a grandson with Fragile X syndrome”. And we knew that. And he said, “I think that’s what you have”. And we’re like, what? [Laughs] 

[00:03:27] And he had just read the first paper published on this syndrome where they found that the carriers who only had pre-mutations of this were in fact affected by it later in life. It just, the older they got, the more chance there was of premutation carriers being affected. So, he said, “I think this is what it is based on the MRI reports and the paper I just read”.  

[00:03:55] So, he ordered more MRI reports that were targeted to what he wanted to see, and he said, “And we will get genetic testing to see if this is what it is”. So, we did that, but the genetic testing took two months because nobody in our area knew how to do it, cuz this is like this new thing. Finally, someone came to our house, drew his blood, sent it to Boston, and they said, “Yes, this is what it is”. 

[00:04:20] [Music Ends] 

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